Bates is not the saviour.all he did was stick the club into administration, wipe out the debts, and reap the profits.



Carlos tevez is the perfect example of a greedy, parasitic footballer.



Howson has earned the chance to play at a higher level and to double his money. Zak hardaker, ian kirke and jon wilkin are similer rl examples.



Being ambitious and wanting to make a good living are different from being egotistical babies.

I caught something the other day where someone was say when a club talks about ambition, they are talking about cash.



For me when Chelsea were bought by Abramovich and bought the title the next season, was when my love for football died, certainly at the top level.

Yup, whenever a manager gets a new position he always talks about having cash available to buy players in.



Was the Leeds side under O'leary and built by Wilkinson the last top flight football side that actually produced a high proportion of it's own players?

Kevin Sinfield could've left Leeds for more money a number of times. He didn't.



I don't blame Howson for taking the fast track to the premiership and cashing in, but I certainly don't admire him for it.

If this was a one off I'd tend to agree but the fact is we have lost Gradel, Schmical, Kilkenny, Johnson and Beckford under similar circumstances which shows that there is something going on which is making these players not want to sign with the club. It is well known we are paying under the going rate with the size of contracts we're offering as Bates seems to think he can offer League 1 wages and players will accept just because it's Leeds. Howson was basically told to meet with the management and that he had an offer accepted for him and was to go and speak to Norwich. He has made it clear he wanted to sign, but due to a lack of investment in the squad it is clear we are going nowhere fast, no ambition has been shown. There is a limit to how loyal to your club you can be, and with Bates in charge I would see no reason, like Kilkenny, Johnson, Gradel and Beckford to sign for longer. And now we here talks with Clayton have broken down, maybe it's all a coincidence? I see one common denominator, a man who has lied under oath in court, Ken Bates.

Gradel went for family reasons.

Kilkenny and schmeical weren't good enough to stay.

Beckford and howson bettered themselves

Kilkenny and Beckford were offered contracts, which inevitably broke down. We wanted to keep them, like Howson, but couldn't, as what we are offering isn't deemed acceptable. We 'replaced' Beckford with Paynter, we have yet to see a replacement for Gradel. We replaced Kilkenny with a 30 odd year old crock Brown. It's not the fact we are losing players, it's we're not signing anyone of quality to replace them.

Very true. Apart from Leicester and west ham we pay as much as anyone in this league.

Perhaps the players are the ones the manager wants?

Look back and he signed a lot of rubbish. Very few of his signings have worked out

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How do you figure that? We have the lowest payroll/turnover ratio in the Championship and were unable to match Kilkenny's wage demands...he then signed for big spending Bristol City!!

We're hardly stabilising though are we - we're going backwards. We have a shoestring squad but have among the best support in the league.



Bates is not interested in launching an attack on the PL. He wants the club to stay where it is and milk all the profit he can - it's better for him to have a profit making Championship club that he can sell based on its PL potential than to have a PL club with a bigger turnover but less profit.

The last few seasons for Leeds have been pretty similar, going well up to christmas then sliding away for the rest of the season

Every transfer window the other sides improve and Leeds sell and wait for loan season

Ken Bates came out before the window and said they were looking to sell five or six players net, as wages were too high. The manager comes out and says they are spending a lot of money on a loan player at the same time as they have just takne £2million and cut the club captains wages from the bills

Bates wont spend the money and Leeds will remain a middling championship side or worse, at which point the manager will take the blame.



A chairman of a sports club is happy to put dross on the field and minimal positive on field results for their own financial profit, as long as the fans keep pumping the money in then there will be no change