I cant quite believe you have a strap line about a head butt and youre engaging in this discussion, but go on then ... farrell dropping on McGuire after hes scored, tomkins giving him a shove and a fore arm after the manfredi try it was petulant and cowardly and niggly and targeted. Dont remember Andy Platt or Dennis Betts needing niggle. Its not rugby league to niggle its childish and out of wanes coaching manual.

The main euphemism used is that senior Leeds players and especially McDermott will refer to Saints or Wire as teams who "play the game the right way". They may applaud Wigan for bringing through young British players but they will never use that particular phrase.



Think back through Leeds-Wigan in recent years, from the Rugby God incident, through the bog brush, the last minute penalty and Saturday night. With a little bit of probing, Leeds players have made little secret of their view of how Wigan approach and play the game.



As for Wane as an individual, I'd have a lot more time for him if he'd shown 10% of the passion he shows today when he was playing in the blue and amber. His ambitions and energy clearly come to an end when he leaves the WN postcode area - the very epitome of the small town mentality.

Yes whenever the time comes that Wane isn't the coach at Wigan anymore it would be interesting to see what he did afterwards and if he went to try coach at another club. The key part of his coaching is how passionate he is about Wigan, both the club and the town, so I think it'd be very hard for him to replicate that at another club.

Meh!

This ^^

Why is my sig (a quote from JP) inconsistent with what I posted? A good percentage of rugby and RL in particular is the physical confrontation. Some of the greatest players in history are thought of as great because of the way they responded to the physical challenge of the opposition. A lot of what people mince on about, shoving at the PTB, verbals, niggle on the floor, 3 or 4 men in the tackle is nothing. Wigan play tough RL, but it's still powderpuff stuff compared to when I started watching the game. Leeds fronted up, as I fully expected them to, and didn't let it bother them.

However, if you think I somehow "approve" of a $h1thouse like Farrell dropping on a defenceless players back after he's scored then you've got me wrong.

Do I like to see all the messing about and strutting around they do? No, but it's something you just have to get on with and deal with. Leeds, led by JP, Garbutt and Singleton up front did exactly that. Wigan play tough, and they push it to the edge, but if you front up to them and hold your discipline they can run out of ideas - exactly what happened in the end on Saturday.

Physical confrontation: but we were talking about a culture of niggly house stuff weren't we? You seem to be agreeing that a head butt has no place in RL. Agreed.

You then seemed to be also saying what Wigan did was legit and we should ignore it.



I get that wasn't what you were saying now though. So I'm glad we're agreed that Farrell's nonsense should be penalised and not tolerated by the ref or the players of the fans, and definitely not by his own coach - who I hold responsible for condoning that e by coming out with guff like moral victory after you lose a man to one of the worst things I've seen on a professional rugby field.

You might want to wind back and go and read my earlier post for my thoughts on Wigan culture and o make reference to the "Moral Victory" comment.

But rugby league is tough, it used to be a lot dirtier but if I'm honest I admire some ( some, not all) of the things Wigan do with regards to intimidating the opposition physically. Like all tactics there is a line you can push it to, and sometimes beyond. I also think that when we start threads like this and complain about pushing and roughing up in the tackle we do our players a diservice. Mags took a lot on Saturday and it had no effect on how he played - maybe even worked for him. He hasn't complained.

I actually thought Wigan held back on the niggle on Saturday, only Bateman went in for a bit of a shove on a Singleton after he collided with Manfredi in the air, and that was a bit half hearted. Leeds players pretty much ignored every high shot and didn't get caught up in any messing about at the PTB. We've been done by Wigan before by getting into that game.



I've seen some terrible foul play on the pitch, I was only a few yards away from Ellery Hanley when Andy Dannatt shattered his jaw off the ball and changed the game forever. Hull's own match video was used as evidence to ban him for 8 matches (although Hanley was out for nearly twice as long). But it ultimately led to the virtual elimination of off the ball late hits which were a blight on the sport.

I have seen games before were mags can be wound up to the detriment of his game, which is clearly what Wigan were doing trying to put him off his game. The only one I had issue with was the late shove on mags after he scored. That one seemed to me to be an attempt to injure rather annoy him off his game.

Agree regarding the game is a lot cleaner than it used to be

Wigan have one style of play. They play it well, and its how they win games if they are allowed to play it. But for teams like Leeds, that can stand up to their bullying tactics (and primarily play a faster, free flowing fancy style of rugby league - which has always been the cub culture at Leeds), they don't know what to do. Teams like Leeds can close them down. Make them panic, make them make their tactics too obvious and give away penalties, and make Wigan very tired. (A final is a bit different as all players of all clubs raise their game)



Attack: Brute force your way down the field for 5 tackles, kick.

Defence: Hit them as hard as you can, hurt them, try to make them fear (Not respect your talent) you.



Wayne will do some serious mental damage to some fantastic players if he continues to take them down this path (Forcing them to be nasty and aggressive to win at all costs), they won't learn the necessary skills to perform different styles of gameplay, and they won't be the players they have the potential to be.

Bog brush?

I think that your view expressed above is a gross simplification of how Wigan play the game and one with which I do not agree. I dislike the niggle and the slowing of the PTB, because I prefer a fast open style of RL. But if Wigan are playing with in the rules as defined by the RFL and the officials on the pitch, then that's their choice and we shouldn't spend too much time moaning about what we can't change. I also question your idea that Wayne will cause mental damage to players by forcing them to play to his style of game. I believe that most working environments are self selecting, if a company or team has a defined style and way of doing things, those that like and or can work with in a given environment will stay and prosper, those that can't will leave. If the fans and players don't like it they will vote with their feet. Wigan are a good team who play some cracking rugby, beating them on Saturday made the treble even more of an achievement for mine.