The problem is that it's getting worse and even though I agree with the aim of replacing from within with youth, I'm not sure the players coming through are good enough to take over.



I'm not sure it is a better squad than Wigan, Wire, Leeds and Hudds though. There are players that are individually better, Roby, Graham, etc. But is Gardner better than Lawrence or Cudjoe? Is Meli? Is their coach just getting more out of his players than ours is?



Of course it could just be the competition evening itself out as more teams spend up to the cap, and that can only be good for the game.

I think think it is about evening out, which unfortunately means the very top teams like us are going to get worse.

I'm sure we have our fair share of high-earners i.e. Pryce, Wellens, Graham, Wilkin and Roby . But if we are right up at the cap - and given the hefty number of inexperienced kids playing first team football - we either have to believe that McManus (arguably the most financially astute man in SL) has chosen to grant them all pay deals that are above and beyond the market rate for their level of achievement or he's not telling the truth.



Don't forget that it was McManus himself who stated over two years ago that we needed to cut our cloth accordingly in order to secure the stadium - which meant getting rid of the experienced high-earners and going with less expensive (but precocious) academy lads. If we're bang on the cap then what's happened to the cost-cutting? What was the point of getting rid of, say, Willie Talau (when we couldn't afford to) if we were just going to carry on spending like were champions?



I'll go back to the point about paying over the odds for our kids. If we are doing precisely that then what happens when all of them mature (as they all will in the next 18-24 months) and improve dramatically? If we're up at the cap we won't be able to give them any kind of pay rise and they'll be off double-quick. I suppose we could pay them more if Wellens retires or Meli leaves. But if we pay them with that money what's left over to replace Wellens and Meli?



It just doesn't add up.

Under the cap rules, if a player is long serving (can't remember the exact number of years) doesn't only half their salary count towards the cap?

If so, we are trying to replace KC, Scully and Longy on half the wages we were actually paying them.

Chill Frosties. It's not even our board. If someone came on SS shouting the odds he'd get chased off the board with axes!

Nope. There is 50 grand that can be a reduction on players wages with over 10 years service. Thats 50 grand in total not each player. But you could spend it on one or many players with over 10 years.



The rhinos have sini, senior, Jjb, Bailey, burrow, McGuire. Disco goo until he moved on.



So say senior who will be on reduced terms, may only be taking up 20 grand on the cap but getting 70K but no reduction on anyone else.

This is correct, at Warrington we have Jon Clarke, Lee Briers and Paul Wood all with more than 10 years service but we are only allowed £50,000 in total spread across one or more players.



Seems a shame really that if a player stays at a club for ten years then the club should be given an incentive to keep him on the cap by allowing £50,000 for each player.

There is also (as an extra to the 10 year allowance) a £50K allowance for the top earner who has come through your academy system.

I would guess Roby at Saints, Burrow or McGuire at Leeds, O'loughlin at Wigan, Paul Wood at Wire.

We are not scrapping the barrel with our kids as some doom mongers would suggest





1. Wellens (1st choice)

2. Gardner (1st choice)

3. Shenton (1st choice)

4. Wheeler / Lomax (1st choice)weirdly enough

5. Meli (1st choice)

6. Gaskell

7. Wheeler / Lomax

8. Perry (1st choice)

9. Roby (1st choice)

10. Graham (1st choice)

11. Flannery (1st choice)

12. Puletua (1st choice)

13. Moore (2nd choice but not youth player anymore international hooker with many years of experience at SL)



14. Clough (1st choice)

15. Ashurst

16. Magennis / LMS

17. Foster (should be on the field IMO, but a kid all the same)



So I make that 11 first choice players. We are hardly in a war with this casualty list.

Dux and I watched a game from last year on record t'other week, and the line up whas very ropey. We're doing alright, I just think the amount of shuffling round messrs Wheeler/Lomax/Eastmond/Gaskell/ Foster have done over the past 2 years has meant that we don't really know (or perhaps are confident in knowing) what our actual starting line up should be.

Maybe not scraping the barrel overall, but the above is the real negative.

Lomax got some extra responsibilty in a game towards the end of las t season (was it Bradford at home?) and had a stormer! Maybe moving him closer in with Wheels in the centre will help bring out his best.

Gaskell is a good 1st receiver and although his kicking is inconsistant, it does have potential, so will hopefully improve as he gets more game time.

The key (as so often) in the forward. If we defend with authority and crash the ball up well, make the offloads and the back row offer the runners, our young half backs will have a chance.

If the forwards play like they did last week, it would be a case of our youngster not standing a chance.

alright don't throw your handbag.

Don't know if it is anywhere else on this thread but I noticed in the St. Helens Star that Clough is or has been suffering from tonsilitis. Hope he is OK to play on Saturday.