What proof do you have he will stay? At some point he will leave the club. Be it 5 years or 20 years. But at some point his financial backing will not be available to Widnes. Obviously the hope is that the club will be self-sustaining by that point. But what if he leaves in 5 years time? Could Widnes, with the advantage their heritage and history brings them, be totally self-sustaining with Super League costs in 5 years time? A lot can happen in 5 years.



In the end you have only the same assurances that Leighton Samuel gave re Crusaders. Why should the RFL believe Steve O'Connor and not the new Crusaders owners?

I make no comment on the current state of your club running/finances as I know nothing about it. However many years of observation have taught me that every time a fresh broom comes in at a club it makes ringing pledges of future solvency, prudent dealings and vows to have learned the lessons of the past. [iEvery[/i new administration says the same things, and their local press proudly proclaims it as if JC himself had arrived. Forget the past. All will now forever be well.



Sadly, in pretty much every case, sooner or later, it all isn't well. Again.



I have nothing against Widnes, indeed as I'm old enough to remember them in their pomp. I like Widnes, and don't begrudge them a place in SL if available, and I wish them and Steve O'Connor every success. Therefore I sincerely hope that the usual fate doesn't befall them. But it ill behoves fans of a club that was in administration as recently as 2007 to be claiming financial bragging rights. And if you did get back in SL then you'd need a massive and improbable increase in base support if you wanted to be both competitive and operating in the black. If your argument is, "we don't need to do that, as we have a rich backer so as long as he keeps chucking it in then we're OK", you might be right, but that doesn't support your argument at all, on the contrary, it contradicts it.

Can we try not to turn this into another Widnes Vs Cru & SL debate please?

Let's just move on SO'C is doing a superb job at Widnes off the field & Cru owners have been given another chance from scratch to see what they can achieve with Crusaders. This time next year may paint an interesting picture all around but for now we are where we are.

Hate? Where's the hate? Is it because I'm a Widnes fan that all Widnes fans are assumed to be haters? I bear no malice on the Crusaders, only pity for the utterly comical way that they have been ran into the ground year on year.

Steve O'Connor plans to make us into a self sufficient club that can sustain itself, with a long term vision and a sustainable plan of growth. So far, this man has been true to his word on all counts unlike some chairmen in RL.

You changed that quickly. Obviously thought your needlessly aggressive tone wouldn't advance your argument.



Isn't that what all chairmen plan to do? And every chairman is true to his word until he breaks it. From what I've seen Steve O'Connor appears committed to Widnes for the medium term. But as I said in my previous post, what happens when he goes. At some point he will, its inevitable. If he goes in 20 years there's time to get the club on a sustainable footing although that obviously a lot easier to say than to do. What if he goes in 5 years time? Will Widnes be self-sustaining by that time or will they need financial support?

Spot on.







Again, spot on.

90% of clubs would suffer majorly without a big backer(s) the only ones you could argue wouldnt would be those who post a profit? Widnes one of those as are Batley & Workington but then the likes of Saints & KR make big losses so use that how you will, we all need owners it just depends if those owners have long / short term aims for the club. IMO any money man can make a decent side on the field for a few years, however it takes a real business man & determined man to make a club sustainable and successful over a longer period of time. Which one of these Cru owners are IMO could determine the feit of Welsh club RL!

I'd agree with all of that. There's probably only Leeds, Wigan and Hull FC who could operate without a financial backer and prosper.

My point was that in this regard, Widnes are no different from Crusaders, in that we are taking the word of the financial backers of the two clubs that they are in it for the long haul. Now the last few years at Widnes has made Steve O'Connor's word more credible, but in the end it's still only his personal assurance that he will stay, as it is the owners of Crusaders, Hull KR, Salford, Quins or as you rightly pointed out the majority of the other clubs.

Widnes already have a good following, and can attract 6,500 – 7,000 fans in Super league. The infrastructure, and youth set up are first rate. It is now partly owned by the local council and the stadium rent is now low. We would be in a better position than every other club in Super league, should our main backer leave. Only the big clubs you mentioned would fair better, imo.



The last time we were in SL, we made a slight profit. We are nothing like the Crusaders – old or new.



Glad to see the Crusaders out of admin though. Let’s see what they can do, without being hamstrung by the mess left by Leighton Samuel. I’ll be looking forward to some cracking derby games, should we get the nod for SL next year.

I would class Widnes as similar to Cas, in a sort of "middle ground" of SL. Could finish 4th or 5th on a good year, or 10th or 11th on a bad year.





You are similar to Crusaders in that you still need a financial backer until the club can become self sustaining. Admittedly Widnes would become self-sufficient quicker and would fair better if that financial backing were taken away.





Yep, and I sincerely hope Widnes get into Super League, just at the expense of a failed Wakefield instead of a struggling to establish itself Crusaders.

Fair commentsand all any crusaders fans wants is stability and long term sustainability. Look forward to playing you guys in the future