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| Quote Judder Man="Judder Man"I wouldn't scrap it, I would enforce it from the bottom end. Probably only 50% of the superleague clubs, with the exception of London your top 6 finishers in the league are the full salary cap ones.
The lower clubs don't have the support or revenue streams to spend to full cap, these should not be given a license, sorry Salford and Cas fans.'"
So you have a 6 team league? |
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| Quote Him="Him"So you have a 6 team league?'"
No, would have minimum to maximum range. For example 1.0 to 1.5 million, if clubs can,t spend to that because of lack of income stream the standard of superleague will drop in various forms.
Once you get 12 teams spending to salary cap targets, you can then raise it to maintain stature of the sport.
The top 6 teams can can probably spend more and progress the sport, but they are being held back because the bottom 8 teams are stagnant and will veto any progress to the sport that involves extra expenditure. |
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| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"we can because the aims of the salary cap are measurable, it was put in place as a talent distribution mechanism, we can safely say it has failed this respect due to the concentration of success, it was put in place to stop clubs going bust, it has failed in this respect because clubs have gone bust, and it was put in place to stop wage inflation which it has been massively successful because our players are sadly earning less now than pre-salary cap. We can measure the wc om its own merits and we don't need to draw a false dichotomy arguing the only option is this specific form of cap or no cap at all and measure the caps successes only relative to a hypothetical world with no sc at all'"
We can't, because we don't know how we would have done against those measures in the parallel universe that didn't have the salary cap. |
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| International Chairman | 17134 | No
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| Quote Wooden Stand="Wooden Stand"Nobody can be sure the Salary Cap hasn't adversely affected RL in this country.'"
And nobody can be sure the salary cap hasn't positively affected RL in this country. So, what's your point?
Quote Wooden Stand="Wooden Stand"I believe it has been a disaster for RL in this country'"
and some people believe in ghosts, and all sorts of other nonsense. |
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| Club Owner | 14082 | No
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| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"Firstly, 10 of 14 isnt 80%. Secondly, operating at a profit isn’t always the aim, of all companies, at the same time. it is pretty naïve to look at profitability as the only measure of financial health.
St Helens don’t operate at a profit, they have posted some results which in isolation look pretty bad. But they have a huge shiny new asset which not only increases the chances of profitability for future years, but is a big shiny asset on the balance sheet on its own. Leeds as well, don’t look to post huge profits, with ‘management fees’ and loans to Carnegie often bring down the amount they show as ‘profit’. I have no doubt other clubs will have similar set ups. So again, it is pretty naïve to look at profitability as the only measure of financial health.
St Helens don’t operate at a profit, they have posted some results which in isolation look pretty bad. But they have a huge shiny new asset which not only increases the chances of profitability for future years, but is a big shiny asset on the balance sheet on its own. Leeds as well, don’t look to post huge profits, with ‘management fees’ and loans to Carnegie often bring down the amount they show as ‘profit’. I have no doubt other clubs will have similar set ups. So again, it is pretty naïve to look at profitability as the only measure of financial health.
Considering the salary cap has done neither of those things, it is pretty ridiculous to keep it in place, it hasn’t broken the stranglehold of the big clubs. Its just that one of them has been run poorly, and we have had three more ‘rich guys’ join the party. I find it strange that you argue so much on the financial prudence needed and how all clubs need to only spend what they have because were that the case, your club wouldn’t be in SL.'"
Ok if you want to be pedantic 71.4% of clubs are losing money! 
Yes most businesses will operate at a minor loss for tax purposes but I don't know of many that are happy or sustainable operating at 250k-1mill+ every year!
The salary cap hasn't had the desired levelling effect, arguably, due to not envy club spending it. Some are spending more, some significantly less. The day we see every club spending the same will be the day we see more teams competing for silverware. Look at the player movement from top to bottom clubs and compare it to SL player movements, there is your evidence.
My club has spent full salary cap every season since joining SL. If anything we may benefit more by having no salary cap than others as we have millionaire backers. I want to see a SL of 14 competitive teams all financially sustainable. P&r or removing salary cap would be major mistakes. |
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| Club Coach | 523 | No
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| Quote JB Down Under="JB Down Under"
My club has spent full salary cap every season since joining SL.
If anything we may benefit more by having no salary cap than others
P&r or removing salary cap would be major mistakes.'"
1 Your comments indicate that you don't really know what you are talking about on this; in this country, the current Salary Cap does not (as it happens) have anthing to do with how much you spend on players! It has to do with an RFL assumed value of the contractual arrangements clubs have with players.
2. Scrapping the Salary Cap provisions and introducing automatic one-up, one-down promotion and relegation betwen the leagues, with immediate effect, would be a massive boon to Rugby League in this country (which is up against competition from Soccer & RU). |
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| Quote Wooden Stand="Wooden Stand"1 Your comments indicate that you don't really know what you are talking about on this; in this country, the current Salary Cap does not (as it happens) have anthing to do with how much you spend on players! It has to do with an RFL assumed value of the contractual arrangements clubs have with players.
2. Scrapping the Salary Cap provisions and introducing automatic one-up, one-down promotion and relegation betwen the leagues, with immediate effect, would be a massive boon to Rugby League in this country (which is up against competition from Soccer & RU).'"
1. Why do you believe that?
2. No it wouldn't. |
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Quote Richie="Richie"
1. Why do you believe that?
2. No it wouldn't.'"
1. www.therfl.co.uk/~therflc/client ... rt%205.pdf
2. Yes it would! We are trying to put in place a structure for professional Rugby League in this country that will enable the game to grow and develop so as to be able to compete and win at national and international level be be attractive and inspiring for young athletes, spectators and financial backers in equal measure. |
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Quote Richie="Richie"
1. Why do you believe that?
2. No it wouldn't.'"
1. www.therfl.co.uk/~therflc/client ... rt%205.pdf
2. Yes it would! We are trying to put in place a structure for professional Rugby League in this country that will enable the game to grow and develop so as to be able to compete and win at national and international level be be attractive and inspiring for young athletes, spectators and financial backers in equal measure. | |
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Quote Wooden Stand="Wooden Stand"1. www.therfl.co.uk/~therflc/client ... rt%205.pdf
2. Yes it would! We are trying to put in place a structure for professional Rugby League in this country that will enable the game to grow and develop so as to be able to compete and win at national and international level be be attractive and inspiring for young athletes, spectators and financial backers in equal measure.'"
1. Tell my why you believe what you believe. Argue your case, if you have one.
2. No it wouldn't! Simply repeatedly saying it won't make it so. Such a structure would. A promotion system of one up and one down wouldn't, in any way, contribute to that. Argue your case, if you have one. |
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Quote Wooden Stand="Wooden Stand"1. www.therfl.co.uk/~therflc/client ... rt%205.pdf
2. Yes it would! We are trying to put in place a structure for professional Rugby League in this country that will enable the game to grow and develop so as to be able to compete and win at national and international level be be attractive and inspiring for young athletes, spectators and financial backers in equal measure.'"
1. Tell my why you believe what you believe. Argue your case, if you have one.
2. No it wouldn't! Simply repeatedly saying it won't make it so. Such a structure would. A promotion system of one up and one down wouldn't, in any way, contribute to that. Argue your case, if you have one. | |
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how many clubs in rl in this country have the potential to get 10k+ gates(excluding the ones who already do, wigan,leeds,saints,warrington,hull fc, bradford n cats who are near enough)
apart from hull kr,huddersfield n wakey (and maybe cas)most of the others dont have the potential to compete at the top of the cap level.
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| Quote Richie="Richie"We can't, because we don't know how we would have done against those measures in the parallel universe that didn't have the salary cap.'"
The success of the Salary cap is measured on the merits of the salary cap, it isnt measured against a hypothetical world where there is no Salary Cap. The success of the salary cap is measured on whether or not it achieves its aims, not on whether or not it is better than having no salary cap at all, not least because not having any salary cap whatsoever isnt our only other option. It is perfectly reasonable for the SC to be a complete and total failure, but better than having no SC at all. |
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| Quote JB Down Under="JB Down Under"Ok if you want to be pedantic 71.4% of clubs are losing money!
'" no, 71.4% arent declaring an operating profit.
Quote JB Down UnderYes most businesses will operate at a minor loss for tax purposes but I don't know of many that are happy or sustainable operating at 250k-1mill+ every year!'" How many of the 10 clubs which dont operate at a profit are posting losses between £250k and 1m every year?
Quote JB Down UnderThe salary cap hasn't had the desired levelling effect, arguably, due to not envy club spending it. Some are spending more, some significantly less. The day we see every club spending the same will be the day we see more teams competing for silverware. Look at the player movement from top to bottom clubs and compare it to SL player movements, there is your evidence.'" It has failed in that aim, there are other options for talent distribution.
Quote JB Down UnderMy club has spent full salary cap every season since joining SL. If anything we may benefit more by having no salary cap than others as we have millionaire backers. I want to see a SL of 14 competitive teams all financially sustainable. P&r or removing salary cap would be major mistakes.'" You're club has spent money it doesnt have, run up large debts, and admits itself it is unsustainable and unclear whether more private investment is going to be forthcoming with cuts to playing costs being cut. They have however seen massive growth. Had we restricted you're clubs spending and made it spend a sustainable amount of money it is likely they a) wouldnt be promoted and B) wouldnt have experienced relative success and not seen that growth. |
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