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| Quote Aboveusonlypie="Aboveusonlypie"Socialist principles can applied across the board. The word "Politics" means embracing all areas of life. I don't think you should abandon your principles just because this is sport. Socialism as you know is based on fairness and equality of opportunity, community action and a lesser gap between rich and poor all of which to an extent we can have in Rugby League whilst realising that yes we do belong in the real world and some clubs cannot be propped up if there is no demand for them (ie nobody wants to watch).
I've made this point before but Rugby League in this country has been incredibly sustainable. I would be concerned about the WHOLE of SL not just those at the top. As I said you would end up playing Saints, Warrington and Leeds ad infinitum, ad nauseam!!!'"
But that is essentially what we have (all bar the last sentence that is). There's very little gap in the spending power between most clubs as I think I'm right in saying the vast majority spend at least close to the limit, the gap in ability to win games is getting closer all the time as more and more of the top players leave the big clubs. Great, right? Wrong.
Soon Super League will have no 'Super' players, they will all be playing NRL or Union. Then how long before the fans stop turning out to watch ever decreasing standards of rugby? Then how long before tv and sponsors take notice of dwindling crowds and stop investing? Then how long before talented youngsters start playing other sports which do have superstars?
If we don't do something to allow clubs to pay their best players top dollar, we'll soon find we don't have any players worth top dollar. I hate to sound like a doom monger but I really do feel that rugby league in England is teetering on the edge of a cliff, and there is a distinct lack of noise coming from the RFL to say what they're going to do about it.
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| Quote Grimmy="Grimmy"But that is essentially what we have (all bar the last sentence that is). There's very little gap in the spending power between most clubs as I think I'm right in saying the vast majority spend at least close to the limit, the gap in ability to win games is getting closer all the time as more and more of the top players leave the big clubs. Great, right? Wrong.
Soon Super League will have no 'Super' players, they will all be playing NRL or Union. Then how long before the fans stop turning out to watch ever decreasing standards of rugby? Then how long before tv and sponsors take notice of dwindling crowds and stop investing? Then how long before talented youngsters start playing other sports which do have superstars?
If we don't do something to allow clubs to pay their best players top dollar, we'll soon find we don't have any players worth top dollar. I hate to sound like a doom monger but I really do feel that rugby league in England is teetering on the edge of a cliff, and there is a distinct lack of noise coming from the RFL to say what they're going to do about it.'"
Yes good points, well made. I wouldn't necessarily disagree.
I think I am proposing a loosening of the cap or a raising of it so that our clubs can keep the best players if they have the money. What I am dead against is some sort of free-for-all 'survival of the fittest' because that is not what sport is/should be about.
I share your gloom sometimes, but I wonder how we would feel if Sam Tomkins played for Leeds or Saints. We might take a more rounded view that these things come and go and that at the moment it really is all about the strength of the Aussie dollar.
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| The need for change has been obvious for a decade.
Club owners (sadly, including IL) take a different view and the RFL fail to provide any leadership (in fact they make things even worse).
The game is in a shockingly weak state. The plain fact is that the SC hasn't been raised in line with inflation and yet clubs are still getting into serious financial difficulties, some are still going bust. The SC is at least a third less in real terms than when it was brought in.
This is a damning indictment of the SL project, the SC, the club owners and the RFL (and the hordes of idiots who used to come on this board and tell people like me that all we wanted really was a return to the days when Wigan "bought everyone"' and were "killing the game" etc etc).
I don't expect change, not unless Koukash challenges the SC in court. Based on the NZ court's approach to claims made about the domestic RU SC in one of the few court cases on this area he could well get a sympathetic hearing from the English courts, given the abject failure of the SC to achieve its objectives. If anyone who knows him reads these pages I would suggest they tell him to consider getting a QC's opinion that the SC in its current form is probably unlawful and then inviting the RFL and other clubs to a meeting to discuss a way forward.
I could well understand if he decides its all too much hassle and sells up.
The only other way change will come about is in about 10-15 years' time when the game has become semi-pro (except for Wigan and Leeds). By then though it will be too late (if it isn't already) and the game in England will be on its way to what seems to me to be its most likely future: a competition similar in stature and quality to the French domestic league.
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| Quote Deano G="Deano G"The need for change has been obvious for a decade.
Club owners (sadly, including IL) take a different view and the RFL fail to provide any leadership (in fact they make things even worse).
The game is in a shockingly weak state. The plain fact is that the SC hasn't been raised in line with inflation and yet clubs are still getting into serious financial difficulties, some are still going bust. The SC is at least a third less in real terms than when it was brought in.
This is a damning indictment of the SL project, the SC, the club owners and the RFL (and the hordes of idiots who used to come on this board and tell people like me that all we wanted really was a return to the days when Wigan "bought everyone"' and were "killing the game" etc etc).
I don't expect change, not unless Koukash challenges the SC in court. Based on the NZ court's approach to claims made about the domestic RU SC in one of the few court cases on this area he could well get a sympathetic hearing from the English courts, given the abject failure of the SC to achieve its objectives. If anyone who knows him reads these pages I would suggest they tell him to consider getting a QC's opinion that the SC in its current form is probably unlawful and then inviting the RFL and other clubs to a meeting to discuss a way forward.
I could well understand if he decides its all too much hassle and sells up.
The only other way change will come about is in about 10-15 years' time when the game has become semi-pro (except for Wigan and Leeds). By then though it will be too late (if it isn't already) and the game in England will be on its way to what seems to me to be its most likely future: a competition similar in stature and quality to the French domestic league.
'"
I am a bit confused by your post.
Firstly; who says the game is in a shockingly weak state? Super League crowds this season are not down by much and are a lot higher than ten years ago. We have a World Cup to look forward to when loads of new people will see the game and hopefully will be impressed by it - isn't this a great opportunity? It may seem weak because the playing standards are slipping a little, but "shockingly" weak, I'm not sure the facts fit your view.
Secondly; are you saying Super League should go? You seem to be suggesting a return to the old days would be worse!?
Thirdly; you state "some" clubs are going bust. Have I missed something - neither Salford or Bradford went bust - or do you mean someone else?
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| Quote Aboveusonlypie="Aboveusonlypie"I am a bit confused by your post.
Firstly; who says the game is in a shockingly weak state? Super League crowds this season are not down by much and are a lot higher than ten years ago. We have a World Cup to look forward to when loads of new people will see the game and hopefully will be impressed by it - isn't this a great opportunity? It may seem weak because the playing standards are slipping a little, but "shockingly" weak, I'm not sure the facts fit your view.
Secondly; are you saying Super League should go? You seem to be suggesting a return to the old days would be worse!?
Thirdly; you state "some" clubs are going bust. Have I missed something - neither Salford or Bradford went bust - or do you mean someone else?'"
Taking your points in order:
1. Financially the SL clubs are in a very weak condition on the whole. I find it shocking that clubs cannot afford an increase in the SC after well over a decade of inflation eroding its value.
I admire your optimism in relation to the RLWC.
2. Not sure what you're asking here.
3. Bradford went into administration, which is an insolvency procedure. Salford ran out of cash but managed to delay the hearing of a winding up petition long enough to do a bail out deal with Koukash. Not sure what your definition of bust is.
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| 3rd party sponsorship of players wages and/or transfer fees?
Say Applicado have more money burning a hole in their pocket and they think i know what would be just as good as getting our name on the shirt, we get the best player in the world playing in our shirt.
or
A wealthy business man who loves the club and thinks i don't want Tomkins to leave, i'll phone him up, find out what NZ Warriors are offering and i'll double it for him to stay.
None of which hit the club in the pocket in any way shape or form.
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| Each club can spend 1.6 million or 50% turnover unless they have the external financial backing ala Salford and has 1 marque player which doesn't count on the cap what so ever. That means the cream from the NRL and Union could be bought. Also when a player comes through the youth system and has been at the club 10 years their salary doesn't count in the cap if the clubs choose to take that option if they can afford it.
We could have O'Loughlin and Hansen not on the cap which would free money up for Tomkins and then bring in Sonny Bill Williams as the marque player 
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| What world are some supporters in where finance of the game is concerned ?
You cannot spend more than you have coming in and the main reason why club's end up in administration.
The answer is for club's to attract bigger gates but what chance has our game got when people now prefer to sit at home and watch sport on Sky television, especially when football is rammed down their throats by the media.
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| The best way to get more money into the game is to sort the international scene out and that means a return of the ashes. You can have a popular domestic product but that doesn't generate outside interest and you need that outside interest to get big sponsorship deals etc
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| If we have enough teams to create a World Cup our governing bodies should push to get our sport into the Olympics and Commonwealth games.
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| Quote Ranger="Ranger"If we have enough teams to create a World Cup our governing bodies should push to get our sport into the Olympics and Commonwealth games.'"
as Rugby 7s is now in the Commonwealth games, is there anything stopping the RFL putting in a team to challenge Englang RU to represent the country at the games ?
as a minimum wouldnt it be nice to have a mixed team, so that neither code loses face ?
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| Quote Gurney Slade="Gurney Slade"What world are some supporters in where finance of the game is concerned ?
You cannot spend more than you have coming in and the main reason why club's end up in administration.
The answer is for club's to attract bigger gates but what chance has our game got when people now prefer to sit at home and watch sport on Sky television, especially when football is rammed down their throats by the media.'"
What about Koukash? He can't wait spend a bucket load of cash. As long as the owner can afford it or it comes from a 3rd party and the clubs finances are in order what's the problem?
Could do with changing games to Sunday afternoon, have 1 game Friday and 1 on Saturday for sky then all the rest on a Sunday afternoon.
By playing games on Sundays you get more away support.
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