No.



That's in Stretford and therefore in neither Salford or Manchester.

wigan might not have the best squad of 13 or 17 on paper but games are not played on paper and the coaching makes a big difference. It is also what happens when any of the 1-17 are not available and that is where Wigan come to the forefront as the back up players are not weak links.

The most exciting thing about next season for me is the fact that we don't yet know how all of the big teams will do.



Wigan- how much will we miss Sam? How will Bowen do? Will we miss Pat? How will youngsters like Hughes/Bateman/Burgess/Sarginson/Burke do - (because at least one of them will become a star)? How will Pettybourne do? Will the pack be as good without HH?



Saints - How will Walsh fit in? Will they find a Stand Off? Will Walmsley improve (if so he could be immense)? Will Masoe be as good as he looked in the World Cup? Can Brown be a winning coach? Saints look stronger but is Brown up to it?



Leeds - Can they begin to replace Peacock and Leuluia in the front row? How long will McGuire and Sinfield last? Will their wingers get any service?



Warrington - Will they replace Hodgson, Morley, Briers? Will Higham and Monaghan last a full season? Can their younger forwards compete? How much will they really miss Briers? Warrington don't look as strong, but they do a have a fine coach



Salford - Will they gel as a team? Will Chase and Smith play to their undoubted potential as a pairing? Nobby will get them into the playoffs certainly, but will that be enough for the Doc?



Huddersfield - Will Brough have any reaction to playing at the top of his game for 10 months of this last season? Will they have learnt from last season in the same way that Wigan did?



For me, I am not as worried about the opposition this year. Wigan have no-one to fear.

I was thinking the same last year and look what happened

Sam aside, we're going in to next season with a consistent spine, which is something we haven't really been able to say for a good few years. In Bowen we are bringing in a top class proven NRL fullback (albeit with a possible question mark over his long term fitness), and if he can get an understanding with Green, Smith, Lockers, McIlorum who have all been playing to the same structures for at least a full season, then I don't think our creatvitity in attack will suffer too much compared to last season. That's without mentioning Sam Powell, Logan Tomkins, Hampshire, Williams and Tierney who will all be pushing for a regular spot in the 17.



We may miss Hansen's defence but ultimately it isn't going to be the departure of a forward that is going to make or break our season, particularly when you look down the long list of SL quality forwards we have in the squad, even after losing HH, Mossop, Tuson and Lauaki. It gives an opportunity for players like Clubb, Bateman, Hughes, Burke and the younger, fringe players to step up.



There are definitely question marks over us for next season but I'm not worried as we have multiple options for each one. We are unsure of our best left edge combination but there are at least 6 players competing for 2 spots, HH has left, but there are 7 or 8 players competing for a regular SR spot in the 17, and we need to replace Pat's goalkicking, but we have players in the squad who have kicked regularly at SL level.



There are just as many question marks over how Saints, Wire and Leeds will go next season IMO. Let them write us off, it didn't do us any harm 12 months ago.

Good summation imo

Due to the fact that you have not mentioned them does that mean that Widnes and Wakey are the dark horses,

I have a strong suspicion that as soon as Bowen gets a bit of form, we wont miss Sam (in the short term) as much as we thought we would.

Have we been written off? I understand the frustration at seeing Hansen go but I have not seen anywhere that we have been written off. My feeling on the squad is this -



Full back - We will be stronger when Bowen plays. As good as Sam is and will be Bowen out of the 2 is superior because of his defense and positioning. I was massively impressed with him last year for the Cowboys he gets in at first and second receiver as well as linking wide and also supports through the middle.



Wing - In Charnley we have the consistency so no issue there, Gelling does not do it for me on the wing but to be honest neither did Pat in his latter few seasons. Pat became a kick returner and final pass finisher. I see no reason why Gelling cannot do a similar job, I think though one of the young lads will win that shirt and give us real attacking threat on both sides of the field in any position. Massive loss is the kicking of Pat and his experience.



Centre - Stronger, Thornley with an offseason in him and the confidence from his performances towards the back end of last year should be a massive benefit. Goulding just keeps doing it Mr Consistent.



Halves - Same as Centre,



Prop - Massive strength in depth and a bit more punch this year with our new recruit. The younger lads have another year on the clock and I expect some of them to come back bigger physically than they were last year. Taylor for me could really come to the fore and push for International honors. All in all stronger.



Hooker. MM will continue to improve he is becoming a very rounded hooker. I expect a big steps forward from Logan this year, I dont know why but I just feel this could be his coming of age season.



Second Row - Faz another who will keep ticking over excellent no nonsense player has it all. Another year on the clock and building towards his peak in a few years time. Assuming we do not recruit the question is who fills the spot vacated by H. Big question marks on Bateman and his fitness issues and Hopkins totally untested. Gelling I would think will be in the mix as well as some of the younger fringe guys. Losing H's experience in my opinion and the unproven nature of his potential replacements means we will be weaker.



Loose - Legend



The support squad, as good as I have seen in SL.



We have much to be optimistic about, I do not believe given the depth in the squad we will see as much as a drop in form as we did last year.



I think we will follow the same model. Hit the ground at 100% take teams apart get to a points target then the rotations will begin, I expect though given the strength of the squad we will drop in performance but not to the levels we did last year before building again for the play-offs.



I am most excited about seeing Bowen next year, a real top quality player, yes it is gutting to lose Sam but this guy is the perfect replacement. I am also looking forward to seeing a few of the questions raised above answered. Who will become the second row incumbent, who will become the man to make the wing spot his own, and finally how we adapt without the experience of H and Pat when we are under pressure in the big games.





Finally I look forward to seeing Hampshire getting more game time either at 1 when Bowen is rested/injured and also in the halves. The kid is a real gem of a player.





I am confident we will be in the mix for trophies next year, and that being said what more can we ask for?

No I haven't seen anywhere where Wigan have been written off either. IMO Wigan are the team to beat next year although I'm sure if you end up winning the double or at least one trophy again I bet there will be some on here doing that thing they've picked up off Latics fans..."nobody gave us a chance, Wigan are always the underdogs we just like proving the big teams wrong" etc.



I think Wigan's signings have been quite good and agree with the analysis that if Bowen is fit and plays well he will mitigate the loss of Tomkins and it will be close to business as usual, although not quite business as usual because lets be honest Tomkins was the best player in SL by some distance so you are going to miss him. There's some denial on here about that just like there is on the Wire site with some of them claiming we aren't gonna miss Briers because Ratchford/Myler will do the job....yeah.



If Wigan aren't favourites next year I dunno who is. I think Leeds have made some decent signings too. Saints possibly although I think Saints are a bit overrated every pre-season. The irony with Saints is that when they were good, every pre-season people used to predict (wrongly) that they were in decline. But since they have been in decline, every pre-season people seem to predict this is the year they will come back and smash everyone, and it never happens. For a while this strange phenomenon happened with Bradford too - I remember the year Bradford signed Matt Orford there were a lot of people looking at their pack with an emerging Burgess, Menzies etc plus Orford and predicting that would be the year of the comeback of the Bulls. I don't see it yet with Saints. Wire will be weaker that is for sure, only one big signing in Asotasi (is he going to be good or past his peak?) and lost Briers, Hodgson, Carvell and Morley....ok Morley was showing signs of decline but the other three were still probably 3 of our best 5 players.



Thinking too much about the league these days depresses me a bit though because there is a lack of quality and I feel like you don't have to be a great side to win things, not like you did in the past. Wigan aren't a great side in the context of Wigan sides of old but they do have the right team ethic and culture and a very professional set up led by Wane off the field and O'Loughlin on it, so at the moment IMO that gives Wigan an edge over the rest.



But I don't expect a march to glory, if you win trophies again it will be a rocky ride with plenty of times this season where this forum is full of anguish from Wigan fans and criticism of Wane/various players along the way. I will probably be hanging out on here during the season as I expect the Wire forum will be in meltdown at parts of this year.

Good post from Jonh.

I do think Clubb will be the first in line for HH's 2nd row spot. He is 26, was captain of London and as SW put it a leader.

We have lost a fair bit of experience so SW will be looking for leadership in the pack.

Pettybourne brings experience to the front row and Clubb will to the 2nd row, then we have Lockers, that is a very good balance to me.

We have a stack full of young and exceptionally talented players and it wouldn't surprise me to see Sarginson take up the role at Wigan that Ratchford does at Warrington. We never had that quality backs utility man last year.

Agree about Bowen, we've lost the best player in SL from full back but Bowen will be the best fb in SL by a distance after 13 years in the NRL and still being in top form.

As for seeing the likes of new signings Pettybourne, Sarginson, Bateman, Hopkins, Clubb and Bowen, I can't wait and this is why we go to trial games.

Well the bookies haven't written us off. According to Sporting Life the favourite at 3 to 1 to win the Grand Final is - WIGAN.

I keep forgetting about Clubb, he is such an uninspiring player for me or has been he just slips my mind. To be fair to the lad though he has all the natural attributes to be a good player and clearly has a good mental attitude so he will probably and hopefully flourish in the Wigan environment.



Clubb ticks Wayne's box, ie big tall potential to be very athletic and mentally tough.



We have bags of options if it does not work out with the younger players, Gelling, and even the likes of Taylor and Pettybourne capable to fit in.



Assuming he stays Powell would be devastating running wide, but it probably is too much to expect him to be anything more than a Prop given his age and his lack of experience.

Very well analysed Jonh, but I think that any game time Hampshire gets should be mainly at halfback, let him get settled at halfback before subjecting him to exposure in the FB position.

Sam had a couple of seasons in the halves and got used to the systems and felt comfortable and settled in the team before moving to FB.

One player who I think could open a few eyes would be George Williams, I have seen him a few times in the U20s and a few times on Wigan TV, he seems to have an old head on young shoulders and is a great organiser.